Empowering Empathy: Abigail Griebelbauer's Dyslexia Journey from Student to Children's Book Author | Dont Call on Me Podcast, The Dyslexia Podcast Ep. 12

[00:00:00] It never changed. Like it just always, I had that anxiety around my classmates finishing something faster than I could or not being able to go outside every day for recess or lunch because I had tutoring. Like there was always something and it just felt like the work was never done. I was so drained when I kind of was not at school because it took so much out of me to be at school for working that long.

[00:00:26] This is Megan, owner of Dyslexia On Demand.

[00:00:30] And I'm Erin, owner of Advocate to Educate.

[00:00:34] And we are the Dont Call On Me Podcast.

[00:00:37] We are here to talk about dyslexia, to remove the stigma, to hear what families really go through and to share their stories.

[00:00:45] In both of our businesses and personal experiences on a daily basis, we listen to people telling their stories.

[00:00:53] Many of heartbreak, many of struggle, but most all have a silver lining. Even eventually.

[00:01:01] It's all about the stories. The more we share, the more we realize we aren't alone and we are a community.

[00:01:09] Know, a tribe standing together.

[00:01:15] Today's episode is sponsored by Dyslexia On Demand.

[00:01:18] Dyslexia On Demand uses only the highest trained dyslexia therapists, and it's all one-on-one and individualized to your child's needs.

[00:01:28] The best part is that it doesn't matter where you're located because it's all virtual.

[00:01:33] Visit us at dyslexiaondemand.com to learn more.

[00:01:37] Today's episode is sponsored by Advocate to Educate.

[00:01:41] We help parents navigate through the confusing maze of special education in public schools in California.

[00:01:47] We support families starting as early as preschool through 12th grade, creating individual education plans to support the specific needs of your unique and amazing child.

[00:01:59] To learn more, go to our website, advocate2educate.com.

[00:02:06] Welcome back everybody to the Don't Call Me podcast.

[00:02:10] We are so super excited today to have Abigail Grebelbauer with us today.

[00:02:17] She is going to lend some amazing perspective as an adult with dyslexia.

[00:02:24] All right. Give us some insight to who you are today in your adult life, where you live, and a little bit about your background.

[00:02:34] Yeah. So I am a three-time children's book author, and I am a former teacher as well.

[00:02:42] I currently substitute teach when I'm not doing author visits and things like that.

[00:02:47] And I live in the state of Indiana, and I absolutely love going and talking to kids about dyslexia specifically is one of my favorite things since my first book is that topic.

[00:02:58] Awesome. So let's go back down the rabbit hole and let's get into your school experience.

[00:03:05] Let's start with your first, whether it was a formal acknowledgement, a moment you had.

[00:03:13] What was that moment that you knew, maybe not that you had dyslexia, but like, something's going on.

[00:03:23] Like something's not like the rest of my peers per se, or the majority of my peers.

[00:03:30] So what was that moment for you?

[00:03:32] Yeah, I was diagnosed in second grade.

[00:03:34] So because I was diagnosed so early, I feel like it always was normal to me.

[00:03:40] Like it just never felt different for me personally.

[00:03:45] Like it definitely felt different than my classmates.

[00:03:48] And my brother also kind of struggled a little bit earlier on too.

[00:03:52] So it was necessarily normal at home a little bit.

[00:03:55] So I don't know if there was anything in particular that like really stands out, especially being that young.

[00:04:01] But having like a close friend too, in the same grade who also struggled, but she struggled with math really kind of helped that like back and forth of, you know, I'm not alone when I'm struggling.

[00:04:17] That's phenomenal.

[00:04:18] I was never formally diagnosed, but diagnosed by my father, who's a educational and clinical psych.

[00:04:25] So, I mean, he could just like throw a label on that very easily.

[00:04:28] My experience was much different though.

[00:04:31] Like I didn't compare to those around me, whether I could give it a name or not.

[00:04:36] I was the stupid kid.

[00:04:38] I was the one that, you know, no matter how hard I tried, it didn't matter.

[00:04:42] That looking around at everybody else, getting their papers back and seeing, you know, they were passing or, you know, do it fine.

[00:04:50] And here I am after knowing how hard I would work to study with my parents, I'm still getting half of them wrong.

[00:04:58] Things like that.

[00:04:59] So I definitely had that experience in second grade.

[00:05:02] So how was it for you in second grade in the classroom?

[00:05:08] Yeah, I can relate to all of that for sure.

[00:05:10] Okay.

[00:05:11] Even with a good experience, all of that is completely something that I agree with that I experienced firsthand.

[00:05:18] I think that I like remember it more later on, like fifth grade and middle school and that kind of stuff.

[00:05:25] But I know that it never changed.

[00:05:28] Like it just always, I had that anxiety around my classmates finishing something faster than I could or not being able to go outside every day for recess or lunch because I had tutoring.

[00:05:39] Like there was always something and it just felt like the work was never done.

[00:05:45] I was so drained when I kind of was not at school because it took so much out of me to be at school for working that long.

[00:05:53] So the name of the podcast you get wholeheartedly.

[00:05:59] Fully.

[00:06:00] Absolutely.

[00:06:01] Okay.

[00:06:01] Because I definitely, when I'm subbing, I specifically do things around stuff because of my own experience.

[00:06:09] So did you have a particular coping skill?

[00:06:12] I think I just would look down.

[00:06:14] Like, I don't think I would like acknowledge that somebody was like trying to call on somebody and just praying and it wasn't going to be me.

[00:06:21] Like that's how I experienced it.

[00:06:24] Okay.

[00:06:25] And so you said you got diagnosed in second grade.

[00:06:28] So tell us about how you received a diagnosis and then what types of services in school, if you got them, if you had an IEP in school, talk to us a little bit about elementary school.

[00:06:40] Yeah.

[00:06:41] So my parents chose to send me to a private school.

[00:06:44] So my experience probably is different than a lot of people.

[00:06:47] I believe if I remember correctly that I was first like tested like through the public school system, which is normal.

[00:06:55] But I think they felt like my grades were good enough and the level I was at was good enough.

[00:07:02] And my parents just refused to accept that because they saw the amount of work that it was having at home and everything.

[00:07:10] And so I got like privately tested and they were like, absolutely.

[00:07:13] She is dyslexic.

[00:07:14] So like it just kind of was a different situation, but I believe mine was a 504 since it was not public.

[00:07:24] But I got things like testing outside the classroom, which was essential.

[00:07:28] And I use that even all the way through college when I was older.

[00:07:32] You said that too quickly.

[00:07:33] You did what?

[00:07:34] What in the classroom?

[00:07:36] Test outside the classroom.

[00:07:37] Got it.

[00:07:38] Yeah.

[00:07:38] Okay.

[00:07:38] So in like high school and college, like I had to sign up for my test.

[00:07:44] So it was like an extra thing I had to do to make sure that I would have a room available or, you know, a reader or whoever it might be.

[00:07:53] Sometimes I got my test read to me.

[00:07:56] I was able to use a calculator.

[00:07:58] I had preferential seating and I always chose the first or second row.

[00:08:03] And that's something that I share with kids too.

[00:08:06] And I say like, this is what I had and I chose to sit in the first or second rows.

[00:08:11] So kids understand that like, it's okay to be in those spots if that's where you're going to learn best.

[00:08:18] Because, you know, it's not always seen as the coolest spot sometimes.

[00:08:21] Right.

[00:08:22] Like that's where I learned.

[00:08:23] And so like I knew I had to be there.

[00:08:26] If I was farther back, I'd be more focused on what everybody else is doing in front of me.

[00:08:30] So just for everyone's perspective, because some people are listening, not watching, but like looking at you, I'm like, you're pretty young.

[00:08:41] Because I'm listening to your experience.

[00:08:43] And I think that like for as much as like parents are having trouble getting testing now or, you know, just awareness of dyslexia and et cetera.

[00:08:54] Right.

[00:08:54] And that's 2024.

[00:08:57] Like roundabout roughly, what year was it when you were in second grade and got identified?

[00:09:03] Because to me, I'm like, wow, even though you're young, that was still like they knew what they were doing.

[00:09:11] Yeah.

[00:09:12] I'm trying to do the math in my head.

[00:09:15] I graduated high school in 2013.

[00:09:19] And that is important because I graduated high school in 2000.

[00:09:24] So we're talking about the times in which things have changed.

[00:09:30] And actually, Abigail, we interviewed somebody in their 70s.

[00:09:33] And that was super interesting to see and hear the difference.

[00:09:38] Yeah.

[00:09:39] Totally, totally different like experiences.

[00:09:41] When I like talk to other people about dyslexia, it's so interesting to see like the broad like way that everybody has experienced it.

[00:09:51] And it's also like even age range, like your and I's experience can be completely different, even though we're, you know, not too far apart.

[00:09:58] So it's just crazy to think about all the things that dyslexia can affect.

[00:10:02] Mm-hmm.

[00:10:03] Right.

[00:10:04] And the common theme amongst them, like regardless of the age, right?

[00:10:08] There is that continuity amongst everybody because at the core of it, it feels like the message is still the same.

[00:10:17] So, yeah, it's important to know too.

[00:10:19] So, okay.

[00:10:20] You're diagnosed.

[00:10:21] You switch to a private school.

[00:10:22] And then what happens?

[00:10:24] So I always, I've always went to private school.

[00:10:27] My parents, yeah.

[00:10:28] Yeah.

[00:10:29] And even in kindergarten, I think even I went there in pre-K.

[00:10:31] So, like private school my whole life, even in high school, I had disability services and I had a resource class period.

[00:10:41] And that was really important.

[00:10:43] And it's really where I learned to ask for help because I had a teacher in that part who really made sure that you advocated for yourself.

[00:10:54] So, like a lot of these classes, some of them that I took, especially like my senior year, some of the people in the classroom, like in the thing that were AIDS, didn't know what I was trying to learn because I was in pre-Cal or something like that.

[00:11:08] So they really were like, okay, well, you have to go talk to your teacher.

[00:11:11] They're open at this point.

[00:11:13] So, you know, you got to go talk to them.

[00:11:15] And so I think that really taught me how to advocate for myself, which then really helped in college.

[00:11:22] Would you say that within the system that you created for yourself and your family helped you create within this private school system that you got your needs met?

[00:11:33] Yeah, I do think so.

[00:11:35] Because I was able to do the things that I wanted to achieve.

[00:11:41] Like I was able to graduate with pretty great grades.

[00:11:43] I was able to be a part of band for four years.

[00:11:47] I did show choir tech.

[00:11:49] So behind the scenes for that stuff, I did theater, whether it was on stage or off and doing props.

[00:11:56] Like I did dance team for four years or for three years.

[00:12:00] And so I was able to do all of the extra things that I really wanted to.

[00:12:04] And I think that came from the support of my parents and teachers and friends.

[00:12:09] So I feel it definitely, it was hard.

[00:12:12] Like it's not easy, but it definitely was worth it overall.

[00:12:17] And what academic areas or I guess within the academic areas and arenas do you feel now or as you went through college that your dyslexia really impacted the most?

[00:12:30] More around, you know, was it reading?

[00:12:32] Was it spelling?

[00:12:33] Was it memory?

[00:12:35] What was the biggest area of impact?

[00:12:38] Yeah, I think definitely like English in general, which is like ironic because I'm a writer now.

[00:12:43] But like that's definitely something that I felt like was a very difficult class and always something I really struggled with and never really fully, fully got.

[00:12:54] That's why I love having an editor and not being able to fully rely on myself for that stuff.

[00:13:00] But I think, you know, readings in there too, in the sense that I had my senior year, I had Brit Lit.

[00:13:08] So it was British literature and I was reading Shakespeare and I was like, oh my gosh.

[00:13:14] That makes me panic.

[00:13:16] I mean, that's rough for someone without dyslexia.

[00:13:19] Yeah, and to put like an extra layer on top of that, of course, our theater production for our play was a Shakespeare play.

[00:13:28] And I was prop master, manager, whatever.

[00:13:31] And so I had to read Shakespeare and figure out what props are used as I'm trying to also read Shakespeare for my class.

[00:13:38] So I had two different books going on at the same time.

[00:13:41] It was very difficult.

[00:13:43] And I don't think I would have been able to do that had I not worked as hard as I did all of the other times.

[00:13:50] And would you say, we talked about this with another mom, but would you say that grit, like, do you feel like you know how to work hard?

[00:14:02] Oh, absolutely.

[00:14:03] I think that just comes with the amount that you have to work hard to learn how to read and learn how to just do things that may come easier to other people.

[00:14:15] I think it's definitely something that, you know, can get frustrating when you're younger because you're seeing, you know, the person next to you breeze through all the worksheet and you're still on two.

[00:14:25] Like, and you're doing your best, but I think that just builds up stuff.

[00:14:31] You know, it's not, it's not easy, but it is worth it in the end and something that I'm grateful for now.

[00:14:36] But I would not want to go back to being, being younger and having to deal with it all again.

[00:14:42] Well, you've clearly parlayed like all of that into purposeful, like a purposeful adulthood.

[00:14:49] Yeah, but I mean, as the skeptic, as I come in, like it, there is something and like this is, I, sometimes I feel like I, I don't ever want anyone to like, and I'm sure we'll get this when we get comments, because so many people are going to listen to this and make comments.

[00:15:08] I'm foreshadowing the future here.

[00:15:09] But it's that, I have to say, it's the toxic positivity because I'm like, yeah, no, you know, what we really want to talk about is how it was.

[00:15:21] I mean, to meet somebody else, to be like, yes, of course, we, we came out on the other side.

[00:15:28] We used the struggle to build something, whether it be a business, your books, your career, this and that.

[00:15:37] But the reality is what I want our message to be, and I want to, to make sure that we get through to the listeners is that it's okay to be that kid.

[00:15:49] It's okay to hear your kid cry about it not being fair because it's not fair.

[00:15:55] It's okay that your kid says they hate school because that's pretty typical.

[00:16:02] And it's okay for them to burn out because they're working twice as hard.

[00:16:08] And it doesn't mean you're a bad parent.

[00:16:10] And it doesn't mean that you're supposed to take those feelings away from them.

[00:16:15] If anything, be a soft landing for them.

[00:16:18] Listen to them, ask them questions, ask them how it feels, let them cry and let them feel it so it passes.

[00:16:25] I'm not a mental health clinician.

[00:16:27] This is not mental health advice.

[00:16:29] This is my own advice.

[00:16:31] But there is like real beauty.

[00:16:34] I have a six-year-old Abigail now.

[00:16:36] He'll be seven and he's dyslexic.

[00:16:38] And when we have these moments together where he tries to read something and he knows it's wrong.

[00:16:48] And I look at him and we giggle and he looks at me.

[00:16:52] And like before he could say dyslexic, he'd be like, it's because I'm dyslexic or something.

[00:16:59] Right?

[00:16:59] And I'm like, exactly.

[00:17:01] And it's okay.

[00:17:03] And we see the humor.

[00:17:04] You have to find humor.

[00:17:05] You have to.

[00:17:06] And also, I don't know how you feel, but I really hated it when somebody else that wasn't dyslexic tried to tell me it was going to be okay.

[00:17:15] And I think it's good perspective, to be honest.

[00:17:21] Because I think that like from, you know, I've got the therapist hat on.

[00:17:26] The non-dyslexic therapist hat on.

[00:17:29] And we do try, not intentionally to be like poly positivity, right?

[00:17:36] No.

[00:17:36] But like trying to help kids see the, like all the colors, like we mentioned, like in that other interview, right?

[00:17:44] And like take a step back and get the bigger picture of it.

[00:17:48] But reality is that we don't walk that walk, like necessarily.

[00:17:52] Some of us do, right?

[00:17:54] But like not all of us.

[00:17:56] And I think that, you know, it does help to hear like what's the most helpful thing for them to hear.

[00:18:03] Is that empathy of, you know, I know this a little bit more than.

[00:18:10] But let's look at all your strengths.

[00:18:13] Yeah.

[00:18:13] And, you know, like even in IEP meetings, they're like, let's go over strengths.

[00:18:19] I'm like, oh, and look, there's a lot of people that are in this world of, you know, we build off of our strengths fully.

[00:18:28] I believe it.

[00:18:29] I believe it.

[00:18:29] But we're really here to talk about what the child needs.

[00:18:32] And yes, we can build upon those strengths.

[00:18:35] But for the, for most conversations, we actually know what kind of therapeutic services the child needs.

[00:18:42] And that's really what we need to be talking about.

[00:18:44] So I have to ask you, what was the first book you ever read?

[00:18:49] And at what age do you remember reading a book from start to finish?

[00:18:56] I don't like have any like picture books that I can remember.

[00:19:00] Like from when I was growing up, the first one that comes to mind is actually like the Magic Treehouse series.

[00:19:05] That was like the series that I like, I love to travel.

[00:19:09] And so I felt like in reading those, I was able to travel a little bit.

[00:19:13] And I just really like loved that.

[00:19:16] I remember doing a project in second grade with the Australia one.

[00:19:20] I think it's like dingoes at dinnertime maybe or something like that.

[00:19:24] I know.

[00:19:25] Yeah.

[00:19:26] And so I actually like later in life had the opportunity to go to Australia.

[00:19:31] And I was like, I absolutely want to do that because I remember that project I did in second grade with that book.

[00:19:37] And so I didn't necessarily read that in second grade by myself.

[00:19:42] Like I don't think I was fully reading that until like fourth grade maybe.

[00:19:46] But like I felt like at that point I had to hide it because it was such like a young book.

[00:19:51] But it's what I liked because I could read it.

[00:19:54] And like that's where I like it was harder in those upper grades because it's like the books I want to read.

[00:20:01] I feel like I have to hide because they're too simple.

[00:20:04] And other people are reading like 400 pages worth of books at that point.

[00:20:09] And I'm like, I am nowhere near that at all.

[00:20:12] Right.

[00:20:13] Thank God there's audio books now because it just really bridges that gap.

[00:20:17] Gives us the access without the torture.

[00:20:20] Interestingly enough, I, when I, if I really am, I can only do audio in short doses or I stop paying attention.

[00:20:29] But I actually can retain information better by reading it myself rather than listening to it.

[00:20:36] Listening to it's more of like to get through information.

[00:20:40] But for me to really retain it, I don't mind as an adult reading it myself.

[00:20:45] But obviously as a kid, it was just asking other people like, can you tell me about, or finding a movie that I could watch or something.

[00:20:54] Yeah.

[00:20:55] When I was a kid, I felt like audio books were like seen as less than.

[00:20:59] And so like.

[00:21:00] And they were.

[00:21:01] They were.

[00:21:02] Like it wasn't ever like push to be like, you should listen to an audio book.

[00:21:06] And I wish it was because I do think it's so important.

[00:21:09] Now I agree.

[00:21:10] I, I do enjoy reading a book the best by listening to it and having the physical copy.

[00:21:16] Like that is how I understand it the best.

[00:21:20] And I also absolutely listen to it at times the speed.

[00:21:24] Like I know it makes me like talk faster in general.

[00:21:28] Oh, I do that too.

[00:21:29] I, that's the best way that I can do it because then if I have to go back and I have to re-listen to something,

[00:21:35] then at least I'm still like on time with what it's supposed to be.

[00:21:41] So you talked about being diagnosed.

[00:21:44] Let's talk about any type of interventions that you got.

[00:21:48] Did you get intervention?

[00:21:50] I did Orton-Gillingham tutoring separately than like in school.

[00:21:55] Like it wasn't offered at school.

[00:21:57] Um, but that was like once a week recess or lunch during the school year.

[00:22:03] And then I also did it over the summer as well.

[00:22:05] And then for elementary, I was pulled out for like resource.

[00:22:11] And I don't really honestly know what we did.

[00:22:15] Like sometimes we would just work on like a game that had to do with like parts of speech.

[00:22:22] Or we would be doing like our homework or like not homework, but like work that we were supposed

[00:22:29] to be doing with everybody else.

[00:22:31] But I will say that that resource time with my, my friend was able to go because she also

[00:22:37] had a learning disability.

[00:22:38] So she also got pulled out, but it was the first time I could breathe.

[00:22:42] Like it, like it was the first time that I felt like, okay, I can be myself.

[00:22:47] I don't have to stress about what everybody else thinks of me.

[00:22:49] Like I can just actually show what I know without being afraid of like being like made fun of

[00:22:58] and, and thinking that I'm not smart.

[00:23:01] And that kind of stuff.

[00:23:02] Right, right, right.

[00:23:03] Yeah.

[00:23:04] Did you have any feelings about going to that and being like separated and different?

[00:23:10] You know, I, I didn't.

[00:23:12] And I think that has to do with the group I had because I had my best friend and I had

[00:23:16] two other girls with me.

[00:23:17] And so I felt really safe and I felt really comfortable.

[00:23:21] I think if it was like my brother's group that it, that they had for their class, I probably

[00:23:26] wouldn't have felt the same way because it was going to be a different set of people that

[00:23:30] I may not feel a hundred percent comfortable with.

[00:23:32] But the other girls also were liking Girl Scouts with me.

[00:23:36] We did sports together.

[00:23:37] Like our, our school is pretty small.

[00:23:40] I mean, it's not, it wasn't too big.

[00:23:42] So you knew everybody every time.

[00:23:45] And I feel like that truly made such an impact.

[00:23:49] So I do feel very lucky because I know that's not always the case, but yeah, it, it truly

[00:23:54] made the biggest difference.

[00:23:55] And probably the reason I was at school more times than not, because there were definitely

[00:24:00] some days where I was like, I'm sick.

[00:24:04] I shouldn't go because it just was too much.

[00:24:07] And like, I, I say that now because like, that truly was how I felt when I was a kid and I

[00:24:12] didn't know how to phrase it.

[00:24:14] I didn't know how to like say like, I'm overwhelmed.

[00:24:16] Like I'm too, I have too much anxiety today and I just need a day to recoup.

[00:24:25] It's interesting that you're talking about how you feel like you were okay because you

[00:24:28] had your, you had your best friend.

[00:24:31] And yeah, hell yeah.

[00:24:33] Like that, that actually makes a lot of sense because in, in one of our interviews, it came

[00:24:38] up around, around if you could be able to share with the peers around you, what's going on

[00:24:46] and just tell them I'm dyslexic.

[00:24:48] And then it's like, not a big deal.

[00:24:50] It loses power.

[00:24:51] It's not a problem anymore.

[00:24:52] And even educate them on like what that means and blah, blah, blah.

[00:24:56] Then kids, once they learn what's there, they're actually, they're very resilient and helpful.

[00:25:02] And yes, of course, there are the ones that tease and this, that, and the other, but for

[00:25:07] the most part, as long as you explain to them what's going on, they're like, okay.

[00:25:12] And then moving on, they're onto the next thing.

[00:25:14] So it, but because of privacy acts and, you know, IEPs and keeping information confidential,

[00:25:26] it's a breeding ground for secretiveness.

[00:25:30] And like, I wonder what the secret is.

[00:25:32] I wonder what's going on.

[00:25:33] Like, why are they going to that special class?

[00:25:35] Instead of just saying, all right, the dyslexia learners come with me.

[00:25:41] We're going to go do your reading.

[00:25:42] Of course, the, let's, let's not call them non-dyslexics.

[00:25:48] Let's give them another.

[00:25:50] Neurotypical readers.

[00:25:51] Yeah.

[00:25:52] But let's use a word.

[00:25:53] Like, can we, can we like say like the right brain and the left brain readers or something?

[00:26:01] Like, can we do it that way so that it's not like what's typical, what's not typical, blah,

[00:26:07] blah, blah.

[00:26:07] I don't really care.

[00:26:08] I want to know, like, just let's separate it.

[00:26:12] Who needs OG and OG at a pace where you, you go and you, you wait until you got it or who's

[00:26:20] in the fast track OG or something.

[00:26:22] I don't know.

[00:26:23] I don't even.

[00:26:23] Don't call it fast track.

[00:26:25] Yeah.

[00:26:25] No, no.

[00:26:26] But you see what I'm getting at is just like, it shouldn't be this hidden thing.

[00:26:31] That's why I wrote the book.

[00:26:33] That's truly it.

[00:26:34] Like, because I wanted to start those conversations young because I saw the impact that it had later

[00:26:40] in my life.

[00:26:40] And I was like, well, why didn't I have this conversation when I was younger?

[00:26:44] And like, I work with a local foundation that does disability awareness.

[00:26:48] And so fourth grade is about invisible disabilities.

[00:26:52] And so sometimes with them, I volunteer and I go and talk to students about dyslexia specifically

[00:26:58] because that's me.

[00:26:59] And so I talk about like famous dyslexics and I talk about challenges and I talk about

[00:27:04] strengths.

[00:27:05] And some of those kids like really will like be so open because they've gone through this

[00:27:10] whole program.

[00:27:12] And they're like, yeah, I'm dyslexic too.

[00:27:14] Or like they choose to share the things with me.

[00:27:17] And I was like, that's awesome.

[00:27:18] Like, thanks for sharing.

[00:27:19] Like, yeah, it's so simple.

[00:27:22] And I wish we did it more often.

[00:27:23] And I think we're on the right path.

[00:27:26] It's just not fast enough, I feel like.

[00:27:29] No.

[00:27:29] And there's so much red tape.

[00:27:31] It's so frustrating.

[00:27:32] Okay.

[00:27:33] And so we've heard a lot about how dyslexia has created like this feature for you as an

[00:27:41] author and professionally.

[00:27:42] I'm curious if, and it sounds like you came out of the formal education system with a good

[00:27:54] head on your shoulders.

[00:27:55] Do you feel that you had that little voice inside your head that said you weren't good

[00:28:02] enough or, you know, you were dumb or whatever?

[00:28:06] I just use that because that's my own voice.

[00:28:08] And do you feel like that voice has caused any other emotional needs for yourself as an

[00:28:19] adult?

[00:28:20] Yeah.

[00:28:21] I mean, I definitely think it impacted confidence and just the ability to be present and feel

[00:28:28] like I can do things.

[00:28:32] Like, as an example, I danced since I was like three until I, with a studio until my freshman

[00:28:39] year and sophomore year, I auditioned for dance team at school.

[00:28:42] And I didn't think anything of it.

[00:28:43] I was like, I'm just going to go and try.

[00:28:45] And I made varsity.

[00:28:47] And I just was like, what?

[00:28:49] Like, I wouldn't believe in myself.

[00:28:51] And like, that really impacted that of like, oh, okay.

[00:28:55] Like, people can recognize that I am good in other areas and things like that.

[00:29:00] So I think that truly, like those little tiny things, like impacted my confidence.

[00:29:06] The amount of growth that I had in band, I played flute and I couldn't even do, like,

[00:29:12] if you know music, I couldn't do a B flat scale my freshman year.

[00:29:16] I don't know music, but that's okay.

[00:29:18] I can go with it.

[00:29:19] It's a very, like, it's the first thing you learn.

[00:29:22] And like, I feel like, and I didn't know it from fourth until eighth grade.

[00:29:26] I had no idea how to do that.

[00:29:28] And so it was my freshman year that I learned.

[00:29:30] And then by senior year, you know, I could play all these other things.

[00:29:34] And so I think that confidence slowly built up in other areas, then kind of reflected on it.

[00:29:40] But I think it was so much slower of a process to build that confidence because of how much

[00:29:46] it impacted my confidence when I was younger in the school environment.

[00:29:49] Yeah.

[00:29:50] Yeah.

[00:29:51] And like, as an adult, I know we all have, obviously, confidence is something you work on,

[00:29:58] on a daily basis.

[00:30:00] And really, ultimately, when it comes to how we perceive our self-worth and how we perceive

[00:30:08] ourselves, there's still like divots, right?

[00:30:12] That date back to childhood.

[00:30:14] So even me as a 48-year-old, you know, how to do, like, in effect, like inner child work

[00:30:20] to kind of figure out, like, where did that come from?

[00:30:24] As an adult now, do you still see that rear ex ugly head?

[00:30:30] I think sometimes, for sure.

[00:30:33] You know, when I'm substitute teaching, I will one time, like, try to write scissors on the board.

[00:30:38] I didn't know how to spell it because all of those letters are like, you know, like, the same.

[00:30:44] Who knows how to spell scissors?

[00:30:46] I don't know what I do as a non-dyslexic.

[00:30:48] Yeah.

[00:30:48] What a horrible word.

[00:30:50] Yeah.

[00:30:50] Goodness.

[00:30:51] I was in a third grade classroom that day and the third grader was like, you spelled that wrong.

[00:30:55] And it was like, perfect.

[00:30:56] Here you go.

[00:30:57] You can spell it.

[00:30:58] And that's just what I did because I was like, I truly don't know at this point.

[00:31:03] And I'm not going to draw scissors on the board because that's just not going to end well.

[00:31:07] I'm definitely not an artist.

[00:31:10] So I think, like, that was actually one moment where I feel like I was confident and, like, I saw the switch of when I wasn't confident when I was younger.

[00:31:20] But there's still those moments prior to that of, like, I still have those to this day of, like, oh, I definitely can feel my lack of confidence in this.

[00:31:29] And I do think it impacts even, like, I definitely have a lot of, well, not a lot.

[00:31:35] I would say some compared to others.

[00:31:37] Anxiety around, like, big crowds and stuff like that.

[00:31:40] And I think that really stems from my experience when I was younger.

[00:31:43] And, like, I still feel that way about crowds for the most part.

[00:31:48] And I think if I had to, like, pinpoint it, I would say that crowd mentality is almost like me sitting at a desk looking at my peers and, like, looking at them be able to finish work faster.

[00:31:59] Like, it's not the same level, but it reminds me of that.

[00:32:04] And so definitely confidence-wise, it still impacts regardless of anything else that I've done.

[00:32:10] How do you feel about reading out loud in public?

[00:32:13] And I'm sure with your books, oh, my gosh.

[00:32:16] My books I have memorized, so that's typically not a problem.

[00:32:19] And I also, like, will some, like, I did learn my lesson because I did have one time where I didn't read my second book prior.

[00:32:27] And I hadn't looked at it for a while.

[00:32:29] And I was like, oh, like, definitely should have done that.

[00:32:32] So after that experience, I know that, like, even if I have it memorized, I still have to, like, re-look at it before I read something out loud.

[00:32:40] But I, like, even sub-plans, like, I've noticed a difference because I definitely disclosed that to my coworkers that I, you know, I used to full-time teach with them.

[00:32:49] So the ones that were there when I was full-time teaching, they already know.

[00:32:53] Like, they are well aware.

[00:32:54] And they actually, like, will say, like, hey, does this work for you?

[00:32:58] And I'll be like, yes, or could we change this?

[00:33:00] They find the audiobooks for me.

[00:33:02] Like, they are now, like, great with handling that.

[00:33:07] But there was a new teacher this year who, she was first grade, and she had me listed down to read when they got back from recess, which is so typical for any classroom.

[00:33:17] And a picture book, not a big deal.

[00:33:19] I can usually get through those pretty easily because there's not as many words on the page.

[00:33:23] The kids like the pictures.

[00:33:25] You know, if they're reading a picture book, they're not going to read it.

[00:33:27] Why picture books trip me up, man?

[00:33:30] My kids are like, let daddy read.

[00:33:34] Like, I don't know.

[00:33:35] It's like the small children's books, they mess with me.

[00:33:38] So I'm relating to this.

[00:33:40] I think that's because, like, since I write them, I have to read so many of them to, like, do research and stuff that I think I go through those so often that I feel really comfortable and confident in those.

[00:33:53] Whereas, like, it was a Junie B. Jones book that she had me read.

[00:33:56] And, like, you know, that's pretty young to read.

[00:33:59] And I got through one page pretty okay.

[00:34:03] Maybe, like, messed up one word.

[00:34:05] Got to the second page.

[00:34:06] Messed up maybe three to five words.

[00:34:08] Got to the third page.

[00:34:10] And I was struggling.

[00:34:12] And I was like, and we're done.

[00:34:14] And I put the book up.

[00:34:16] And I was like, and we're going to move on.

[00:34:17] And I just, like, made up the time somewhere else.

[00:34:19] And I was like, I just learned that that's not going to happen next time.

[00:34:24] Yeah.

[00:34:24] Because it was just, like, I didn't feel like it was the right time to have that conversation with first grade.

[00:34:31] And I not necessarily, like, the school knows I have the books.

[00:34:35] The kids borrow the books from the library at school sometimes.

[00:34:38] Yeah.

[00:34:38] So they know if they've read the book.

[00:34:40] But I'm not going to just, like, have that conversation with them.

[00:34:43] Yeah.

[00:34:43] And I just closed it and we moved on.

[00:34:46] Yeah.

[00:34:47] But, yeah, I mean, that absolutely impacts confidence when you are struggling with a book that you're reading with first grade.

[00:34:53] So.

[00:34:54] I know.

[00:34:55] I know.

[00:34:55] And it's, like, I don't know.

[00:35:00] I want to do, like, an authentic book read.

[00:35:03] Megan, maybe we need to do this.

[00:35:04] Yeah, totally.

[00:35:05] Maybe we need to do, like, and Abigail, we will invite you back.

[00:35:08] If you're willing to be a, you know, a reader.

[00:35:14] And, like, maybe not even telling you ahead of time what the book is.

[00:35:18] Because you know why?

[00:35:20] It's, like, normalizing the fact that if you hand me a children's book right now, I, as a gonna-be 42-year-old, I'm gonna mess up.

[00:35:31] And I'm still a fine human being.

[00:35:36] And it doesn't matter.

[00:35:37] It's gonna be okay.

[00:35:39] I think what's important to step back and realize, though, is that, and sorry, polypositivity over here, but is that both of you, dyslexia has not defined you, right?

[00:35:50] Both individuals that I'm looking at right now are very successful, right?

[00:35:57] Like, Erin, you are a business owner and you are helping to empower parents and children every single day.

[00:36:05] And Abigail, in effect, you're doing the same thing.

[00:36:08] So, sorry, but back to that polypositivity.

[00:36:10] You have taken the trauma and you have turned it into something that is making a difference in this world.

[00:36:18] Abigail, you're a successful author, you know?

[00:36:22] Well, it speaks to the fact, yeah, it speaks to the fact that dyslexic or not, that it really doesn't, it really means.

[00:36:30] It doesn't define you.

[00:36:30] It doesn't mean, exactly.

[00:36:31] Yes.

[00:36:32] Exactly.

[00:36:32] It doesn't.

[00:36:35] And different, like, you know, it sounds like you had a loving, nurturing family that supported you a lot.

[00:36:41] And we rely on our families.

[00:36:44] And, you know, I don't, I spend more time talking to parents than I do these kids at this point.

[00:36:49] I used to be a special ed teacher.

[00:36:50] So, I used to be in the classroom, but now I'm talking to parents so much that I hope that what they get from me is that, you know, yes, they're going to have to do this.

[00:37:03] Yes, they're going to have to, like, work hard.

[00:37:05] But also, let's figure out what they love and let's sign them up for that, too.

[00:37:10] And that, like, let's make sure we don't forget the other things because life is not just about being dyslexic, obviously.

[00:37:19] It's such a small part of who they are as an individual.

[00:37:23] Okay, two more questions.

[00:37:24] One would be, what advice do you, I mean, what advice I'm going to say you're going to give is go buy her book.

[00:37:31] Absolutely.

[00:37:32] Tell me the name of your first book.

[00:37:35] Yeah, it's D is for Darcy, not dyslexia.

[00:37:39] I love it.

[00:37:40] And I kind of have a feeling that it's in my bookshelf, but I'm going to check after this podcast.

[00:37:46] What advice would you give parents that are going through this?

[00:37:53] I think one of the most important things that you can do, because we talked about this, but is to build confidence in your kids and to show them or, like, let them experience a lot of different things to find things that they feel confident in.

[00:38:09] And I think that's something that is kind of overlooked, especially when you're not good at school.

[00:38:14] Because if you're great at school, you've already done it.

[00:38:17] Like, it's super easy and that builds their confidence every day.

[00:38:20] Whereas if you're struggling every day, it lowers your confidence every single day.

[00:38:26] And so finding something that they enjoy and that you can do with them or that they can just do.

[00:38:32] It doesn't matter whether it's a sport or whether it's a crafting activity.

[00:38:38] You know, it doesn't matter what it is at all.

[00:38:41] It's just finding something.

[00:38:43] And I did a lot of things when I was younger.

[00:38:46] I mean, all types of sports, soccer, baseball, basketball.

[00:38:50] I did 4-H.

[00:38:51] So I did projects constantly with, like, sewing and gift wrapping.

[00:38:55] And I did dance throughout my whole life.

[00:38:58] You know, like, all of these things.

[00:38:59] I'm so grateful that I was able to do all of those.

[00:39:02] And, like, I know that that's not an option for everybody, for sure.

[00:39:07] But you don't have to spend money to find other skills that people are good at.

[00:39:12] And so I think it's just building up confidence every day is probably one of the best things that you can do as a parent.

[00:39:19] I, too, tried just about everything.

[00:39:23] And I know a lot of parents, they go straight to sports, which I think sports are great.

[00:39:30] But we know that dyslexia has a lot of different comorbid conditions.

[00:39:36] And so a lot, what I have seen is a lot of those conditions kind of make it difficult for these kids to be in either group activities or highly activities that require high levels of focus.

[00:39:50] That being said, sports are a great way to channel that.

[00:39:53] The other thing is, I have learned through all the dyslexic individuals that I've met is most of us are people, people, people, people, people.

[00:40:05] Like, we want to connect.

[00:40:06] We want to hang out.

[00:40:07] And it's about friendships.

[00:40:09] So it could be as simple as making sure that you have a hangout sesh, a playdate scheduled for your kid at the end of the week.

[00:40:18] Because they really deserve, if they're in intensive intervention, they deserve to be with someone that they, maybe it's a hangout with a parent even.

[00:40:28] But doing something, and that can be what they love for the time being.

[00:40:33] But making sure you're surrounding them with people that fill their cup, I think is really important.

[00:40:40] Giving them a reward, like, or something to look forward to.

[00:40:44] Like, because if you're going every day and it's hard, it's like, oh, you know, remember Friday, we have this fun thing that we're doing.

[00:40:50] Like, I think that's definitely going to be something that would be helpful.

[00:40:53] Okay.

[00:40:54] Last question.

[00:40:56] If you could craft your life again, would you choose to be dyslexic?

[00:41:01] I always find this, like, as such an interesting question.

[00:41:04] And it's actually one that I have gotten from kids before, which always surprised me whenever they do ask.

[00:41:10] And I think my answer has always remained the same.

[00:41:13] And that's yes.

[00:41:14] I think dyslexia is, like, a part of me.

[00:41:17] And I don't know who I would be without my dyslexia.

[00:41:20] Because it has shaped my life so much and has impacted every day.

[00:41:25] And I just don't think it would be me without that piece.

[00:41:30] Like, if you took all of dyslexia away, it wouldn't be Abigail.

[00:41:34] Like, I would not be who I am.

[00:41:37] And so even through all of the struggles and through all of the strengths that come with it too, yeah.

[00:41:43] I mean, I just, I don't think I would take it away.

[00:41:46] I would always want it.

[00:41:48] Yeah.

[00:41:49] Abigail, it was so lovely having you here.

[00:41:53] Please, like, send us the links to your books.

[00:41:56] We'll put them in the show notes and spread the word for you.

[00:42:02] Absolutely.

[00:42:03] And tell us where people can, our listeners can buy your books.

[00:42:08] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[00:42:09] Yeah.

[00:42:09] Right now, we are on Amazon.

[00:42:11] I know that's not everybody's favorite.

[00:42:14] But that's where we are currently, we're hoping, in the future.

[00:42:17] It's my favorite.

[00:42:18] I was going to say.

[00:42:19] That's, like, my number one used app.

[00:42:22] Are you kidding?

[00:42:22] I probably spend the most screen time on Amazon.

[00:42:24] Amazon, tell us the names of your books and a little bit more about how to search them

[00:42:29] and find them.

[00:42:30] Yeah.

[00:42:30] The first one is D is for Darcy, not dyslexia.

[00:42:33] And then the second in that series is A is for Anthony, not ADHD.

[00:42:38] And those are part of the Empower Empathy Early series.

[00:42:42] And then the other book that I have is Winter Break at the Beach, which is just like a fun

[00:42:47] holiday book for kids as well.

[00:42:51] But they can definitely find them on Amazon.

[00:42:53] And that's about it.

[00:42:55] Awesome.

[00:42:55] I can't wait to go check them out.

[00:42:58] So thank you so much for taking your time today.

[00:43:01] Thank you.

[00:43:01] I, it's so awesome to have heard you and Aaron volleying off each other just about your,

[00:43:07] like, experience and how all of that childhood, you know, experience or journey parlayed into

[00:43:16] who you are today as well.

[00:43:17] So thank you.

[00:43:19] Because having these podcasts and having these things that raise the awareness and the understanding

[00:43:24] and the real life experiences from people with dyslexia, I think it's just so important

[00:43:28] for parents and teachers and kids and everybody.

[00:43:30] So thank you.

[00:43:31] So that's a wrap on today's episode of Don't Call On Me.

[00:43:36] Help us keep the conversation going by following us on social media and YouTube and share your

[00:43:43] own experience of having dyslexia at don'tcallonme.com.

[00:43:48] Each voice added to our community helps us break down barriers and build connections with

[00:43:54] those that are struggling in silence.

[00:43:56] Join us again at our next episode for more insights and inspiration.