Failing Forward: Nicola Lott's Journey from Struggling Student to Education Leader | Dont Call On Me, The Dyslexia Podcast Ep. 19

[00:00:00] It's important to be like, you know, keep trying, you know, if you don't keep trying, you'll never get there. But on the other hand, it's important to acknowledge to dyslexic kids, you get to decide when you want to keep trying and when you want to just be. And it's okay to just be you as well. And your whole life you're going to be in this cycle. Like sometimes you're going to be like, yeah, I want to improve that skill. And sometimes you're going to be like, no, this is me and I accept who I am.

[00:00:26] I see a lot of people misinterpreting the growth mindset because, you know, they're like, no, no, no, if you think you can, you can do anything. Well, if I think I can, I'm still not going to win the Olympic gold medal in the hundred meters, like no matter how much I think about it. This is Megan, owner of Dyslexia On Demand. And I'm Erin, owner of Advocate to Educate. And we are the Don't Call On Me Podcast.

[00:00:55] We are here to talk about dyslexia, to remove the stigma, to hear what families really go through and to share their stories. In both of our businesses and personal experiences on a daily basis, we listen to people telling their stories. Many of heartbreak, many of struggle, but most all have a silver lining, even eventually.

[00:01:19] It's all about the stories. The more we share, the more we realize we aren't alone and we are a community. No, a tribe standing together. Today's episode is sponsored by Advocate to Educate. We help parents navigate through the confusing maze of special education in public schools in California.

[00:01:43] We support families starting as early as preschool through 12th grade, creating individual education plans to support the specific needs of your unique and amazing child. To learn more, go to our website, advocate2educate.com. Today's episode is sponsored by Dyslexia On Demand.

[00:02:04] Dyslexia On Demand uses only the highest trained dyslexia therapists, and it's all one-on-one and individualized to your child's needs. The best part is that it doesn't matter where you're located because it's all virtual. Visit us at dyslexiaondemand.com to learn more. Welcome, everybody, to Don't Call On Me. Today, we're so fortunate to have our first international guest.

[00:02:33] She's joining us from Canada, and her name is Nicola. We love her story. We love all of the path that it has taken. We can't wait for you to hear all about it, both being a child of dyslexia, someone with dyslexia herself, and a mother of a child with dyslexia. So go ahead and introduce yourself. Hi. Obviously, my name is Nicola.

[00:03:02] So I am. I'm here in Canada. Actually, I'm feeling really honored to be on the traditional, ancestral, and unceded territories of the Musqueam, the Tsleil-Waututh, and the Squamish First Nations. Wait, can you say that again? What did you say? So in Canada, we do a lot of these land acknowledgements. Oh, okay. Three First Nations whose land I'm on are actually unceded. There was no territories made, and so the white settlers came in.

[00:03:31] And around here, we tend to acknowledge when we're starting things that we have that uncomfortable history. That's beautiful. I love that. And yeah, so I work here in Canada. I support, train, and coach teachers and interventionists who want to learn more about the science of reading. And I've created a community, a virtual community for Canadian educators.

[00:03:58] You know, we love you guys down in the States so much, but so much information is American-centric. So I just felt like it was time we created a Canadian identity and started finding a place to collate some Canadian resources so that we can support each other as much as coming down and continuing to learn everything that's on offer down in the States.

[00:04:23] Well, I will say that we are not perfect here at all, and it might look one way. It surely feels another. I will tell you that. When Megan introduced you, she mentioned many layers of dyslexia revolving you being a mother of a child that's dyslexic, you experiencing that, your mother. So let's start with you. Let's start with what was your experience growing up? Talk to us about what that was like for you.

[00:04:52] And that's a really logical place to start, but I'm actually going to flip it on you because to answer that question, I need to tell you a little bit about my mom, who, like I said, she had dyslexia. And she had that typical, you know, she scored like 97% for her practice exam and then failed the real thing. She kind of had to retake a bunch of final exams, finishing what the British version of high school is, because that's where my family's from. And so she struggled.

[00:05:19] And then she had two boys, my two older brothers, and one of them had dyslexia. So by the time I came around, she was like on it. And she was not messing around. And she didn't know, I guess at that point, whether I had dyslexia or not. But she is a smart lady, and she essentially became an interventionist before that was a thing. And she taught me to read before I started school. So I started school reading.

[00:05:45] So I am an example of what it's like to give a dyslexic child that boost, that early intervention before they fail. That was me. So I learned to read, but it didn't stop me with having difficulty with spelling and punctuation and the math facts thing. And actually, both my mom and my brother that are dyslexic are the kind of dyslexics that are like math geniuses.

[00:06:11] And so they just couldn't understand how you couldn't remember all those math facts and everything. I think my mom sees the world like the matrix, you know. And so my initial like dyslexia trauma came across, came out really differently than typical, right? Because I could read, but we went through like all of this, you know, time and anguish and Nicolette must try harder.

[00:06:36] And, you know, if she's really smart, if she just applied herself, her spelling would be better. And I don't know why she doesn't use any punctuation whatsoever. Like, why doesn't she get this? And so that, you know, that was kind of elementary education. Can I just ask? So you said like you got taught to read from your mom, but were you were still going to school? Like, where were you at the time?

[00:07:04] Like you were still going to kindergarten, first and second grade, but you were learning outside of school. Yeah, I went to just, we lived in the UK at that time. And I went to school. My mom had largely taught me by the time I started. She was just like, so when you were five, like five years old, you could read. Yeah, I was reading. I was reading really early because I remember like she's always said that she believes in bribery.

[00:07:32] And she told her, I just remember like you read this much, you get candy. Like that was her strategy for teaching instruction at the time. And it worked for me. Like, I'm not saying it's a great thing or it worked for everybody, but you know, this is then and this is what she did. That was your language. And yeah, when we think about like teachers or whoever saying kids aren't ready at five to read, that now we beg to differ. Right. Right.

[00:08:01] And you make a mention, and I know that you know this is an interventionist, but I think it's important just to point out the importance of that early intervention. Because one thing that I always say is that you can turn around a speedboat really quick, but it takes a tugboat a lot longer. And that's just because your brain is a little sponge. Your neuroplasticity is at its highest at that moment.

[00:08:26] So we can make such substantial gains at that really young, ripe age. So I think that's just, you're just a testament to that. Yeah. And she was teaching phonics in an era of no phonics instruction. She was just like, this is what works and this is what we're doing. And she wasn't a top qualified teacher. She just figured out what was working. She says she made all the mistakes on my brother. Poor guy. But yeah. So, so the benefit with all of that was I was a reader.

[00:08:55] Like I identified as a good reader and I enjoyed books. And that carried on right away until my teenage years. And unfortunately, this sort of like the dyslexia second punch happened when I was a teenager. And because I was known as a strong reader and nobody worried about my reading, I didn't realize it until years later. But I got, I have comprehension difficulty. And so that's when, and it didn't really show up until those teenage years.

[00:09:25] And that's when all of a sudden, like my grades were just like, I was putting in all this time and effort. My styling was down. My, my punctuation was never good. And my reading comprehension wasn't keeping up. And at that time, nobody even knew to ask the question. Right. So it's only kind of, as I've delved into this, as I've got older that I've realized, oh, I know what was going on. But yeah, I never got diagnosed.

[00:09:52] I did get a dyslexia diagnosis in my teenage years. I know that you mentioned that part of that time you were in a boarding school because your parents had moved to Africa. So at that time, what was that experience like? Because it sounds like that's the point that the wheels were kind of falling off. Yeah, they really did. And so that's why we, my mom said to me when I was little, she said, you're dyslexic, but what's the point of getting a diagnosis? We're not, we're still doing all the work.

[00:10:21] Like she, she worked with me at home intensively to make sure that I stayed up and maybe worked on my spellings and all of that for years. And it was when I went to boarding school and in England, they do like state exams and you could get extra time. She was like, now we're going to get you the dyslexia diagnosis because you, you need to qualify for that extra time. And yeah, and that's sort of when the wheels did fall off for me. I was working so much harder than everybody else. And when you're in a boarding school, you know how hard everybody's working, right?

[00:10:50] Because you know, because you're living together. I was working so much harder and I would just like, I'd get these like really inconsistent results. Like I do well, I fail, I do well, I fail. And I, I wasn't mature enough to really sit down and like, think about why, what's going on here. And, and because it was a boarding school, there wasn't like an adult watching and saying like, let's diagnose this. Let's figure this out.

[00:11:15] So unfortunately my, uh, my high school years were, were, that's where I think like there was a lot of educational trauma for me. And you also didn't have your parents to lean on or to empathize in that situation. So that must've been really, really hard to always be looking in the peer mirror and never having that emotional reprieve from your parents. And I respect that because, you know, my parents also lived in Africa and they're, they're, I'm familiar with the landscape.

[00:11:44] When you're an expat there, there aren't always that many educational choices. And so, um, that's just kind of how you have to manage, um, at that time. But that, that had to be hard for you. Well, it, it sounds so prehistoric now, but it was pre email. So I couldn't email them. We couldn't really phone them because of the phone lines cost, um, like two pounds a minute. I don't know what that is in American dollars back then or whatever, but it's a lot of money.

[00:12:14] And they were very sketchy. Like if you phoned, you didn't know whether you could actually get through or not. And letters took two weeks to get there. So I saw my parents a few times a year that was growing up. It sounds like I'm like a hundred years old. Honestly, I'm not, you know, the world's changed a lot. And I grew up in that time also, just so that, you know, and the only way when my parents were in Africa

[00:12:39] that we could talk was because they had to satellite phone and that was provided through the company. And that's the only way that I was able to speak to them. So I, I completely, I get it. And this was, I'm just referring to the nineties and the early two thousands. So without your parents support, I mean, like without their, them being right by your side and you had said that the trauma, that's when the trauma hit you.

[00:13:04] So can you talk about the feelings, the, what you remember thinking about yourself, like reflecting back why you think that time created trauma for you? Nothing seemed to be related to effort, right? Like I could put so much effort into everything and I had no, I never knew what the results were going to be. Sometimes I would be okay.

[00:13:29] Like I was never like, you know, stellar, but I would sometimes get like a good B and sometimes they would just be like, Oh gosh, like how did that happen? And I think, you know, you talk about grit with dyslexia a lot. And I always feel for kids when I, that I'm working with, when we're talking about grit, cause it's not a fun journey. No, it is not. You know, it's a good thing to have, but nobody wants the journey to get the grit. And that's what it was, was, you know, like that constant, Oh, I fell on my face again.

[00:13:59] I go to bed. I just feel low as anything. I'm confused. I don't know why this is so hard for me. Why everybody else is just able to do this thing. The trigger word for me is like making silly mistakes. Cause they're not silly. Right. Do you know how hard it is to not make those mistakes? So let's not trivialize them for people who like, it's just part of life is to make those mistakes.

[00:14:24] And then in the morning, you know, you'd get up and you'd like, you know, go through the motions, getting dressed and that. And, and slowly you kind of pick yourself up again because there was nobody around to pick you up. Right. And then it was like rinse and repeat that year after year after year. So, so yeah, I think I came out of it with grit, but I wouldn't wish that grit on anything. Right.

[00:14:49] And, and I'll say that my, you know, I, my father's dyslexic and, um, it was a little bit similar in that he was a school psychologist and, you know, he was like, yeah, we know you're dyslexic. Like, what's the point of testing? You know, like there's, it's clear. I'm like, he saw it right away and was just like, okay, let's get you into some intervention. And I, you know, I didn't have any distance from them or anything like that, but I still

[00:15:19] experienced my own kind of voice that stemmed from that time in my life was no matter how hard I try, it's kind of irrelevant. So, I mean, that's how I, I still deal with that little voice on those days that I am struggling myself or whenever I'm really, really exhausted. A lot of those voices start to come up because it's just what happens where even in business today, where I end up feeling like I'm not good enough.

[00:15:48] It's come up with Megan and I, as we've created this podcast. Right. And I'm like sending her emails like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. Like I can't keep up. It's kind of crazy how this little voice when I was six and seven still comes into play and to hear from somebody in a work environment, it's fine. You're totally fine. Like everything's fine. That's the nice thing to say, but there are times where my assistant's like, what are you doing?

[00:16:18] Do I have to follow you around everywhere with like a pitchfork? Like what's happening? And I own it. That is my own trauma that seeps in when I get tired, stressed, overwhelmed. And I want to ask you, does that show up for you today? Oh yeah. I mean, like, I think one of the most important things that I do with kids is talk about self talk because that self-talk that like it was instilled in me at a young age for me, like

[00:16:45] I hit a huge amount of primary school trauma around math facts and largely, I think it was largely because my mom couldn't understand. And it was like the era of disco. So she used to have me go to sleep listening to times table disco. Like if you've ever tried to go to sleep listening to disco in the first place, but anyways, the horrors of that is like pervert and etched on my brain. Sounds awful.

[00:17:12] And the self-talk, you know, like you just sit there and you're like, I can't do this. I suck at this. And I'm actually really good at math. I just don't do it in my head. But it took me years to be able to add that little piece of self-talk onto myself. And I know like I went to university, I got my degree and then I had to go back and take some like 100 level courses to, you know, do something else. And I was like, oh my goodness, like I'm 18.

[00:17:41] Like this is like the end of high school level. And it took me right back to that trauma. And my self-talk just talked me right out of it. And I just walked out. I was like, you know, I'm not going back to this time of my life. And that's really unfortunate, you know, like that trauma is, it's really hard to shift. But I think it's really, really helpful for Aaron, you to share your similar experience of that inconsistency and the frustration and that kind of ongoing battle.

[00:18:10] Because I think if I experience it and you experience it, there's probably many people listening that are saying yes. Yeah. And that I'm glad you talk to your kids about it, but like the students that you serve, because it is that inner voice. Like we all have it, whether the trauma is from this or something else, right? But when the job of a child is pretty much to go to school, like that's their job. Their job is to learn.

[00:18:37] So it's so important that not only the parents are understanding of that inner voice, right? But that their teachers understand what the child's inner voice is too. Because by accident, teachers can say things to kids not with no intention of harm. So share with us. So from that kind of what happened after you went through that experience,

[00:19:03] were you able to get any support or did you have to just muscle through it? So at high school, I had Mrs. Parker, who was this lovely lady, and I'd go and see her once a week. And she would have me do stuff with spelling rules. And I never really paid any attention to it. But I just really liked going to see her once a week. So I don't think it was at all effective, especially like I read my mum found all my school reports a couple of years ago. I sat and read through them all.

[00:19:31] And, you know, it was all like, you know, that spelling. It's like, yeah, there was actually more to me as well. Like what were about the ideas and the things I was doing? But it was all like, you know, if only if it wasn't for her spelling, she could be doing quite well. So they decided that I would actually keep Mrs. Parker until like 18, which, you know, like I said, like I was alone. So it was just nice to have to go and sit with her for 40 minutes a week.

[00:19:59] It was completely useless from an intervention perspective, but I like hanging out with her. So that was the support I had. Yeah. But it gave you something that was missing, I think, emotionally, too. So I think that with this podcast, a lot of what we're talking about is just that inner voice and the associated self-esteem. And that's why we're doing this. Honestly, it's not to educate people about intervention or advocacy. It's about bringing awareness to that feeling.

[00:20:27] So even if Mrs. Parker wasn't doing the intervention that you needed, you were getting something from that. It was helping to kind of boost and provide that support. So shout out to Mrs. Parker. Yes, I would love to know where she is these days. Yeah. And like we have this movement into growth mindset. It's very popular in schools right now.

[00:20:50] But I also feel like it can also be used to kind of beat dyslexic kids with, you know, like on one hand. Yeah, it's important to be like, you know, keep trying. You know, if you don't keep trying, you'll never get there. But on the other hand, it's important to acknowledge to dyslexic kids. You get to decide when you want to keep trying and when you want to just be. And it's OK to just be you as well. And your whole life you're going to be in this cycle.

[00:21:18] Like sometimes you're going to be like, yeah, I want to improve that skill. And sometimes you're going to be like, no, this is me. And I accept me for who I am. And I feel like I see a lot of people misinterpreting the growth mindset because, you know, they're like, no, no, no. If you think you can, you can do anything. Well, if I think I can, I'm still not going to win the Olympic medal in 100 meters. Like no matter how much I think about it. I'm dying inside of happiness right now.

[00:21:47] Like you have no idea how much I am relating to this. Megan knows like I've I've talked about how I feel like there's this sense of toxic positivity in this in this field of like giving kids false hope. And I think that when you're mixing the two of growth mindset, it it angers me because I feel like they're not being honest. I'm 42.

[00:22:14] So whatever, you know, when I was in school, we were not having to write five sentences and explain the math problem. I hated geometry because there were too many words I was stumbling over statistics. I had to work really hard, but there was a lot of reading. So, you know, I think that it's very important that we be truthful and honest and give more context with growth mindset in particular.

[00:22:41] You know, sometimes doing things over and over and over again don't create the results that we expect it to create. And not to say practice doesn't help because, of course, it does. You still need the grit. You still need the rigor. But the long term outcome isn't going to be that that you're not dyslexic anymore. And why would you want it to be as well? Right. Like we're not trying to fix brains here.

[00:23:11] Dyslexic people are are perfect. They're they're the way they're meant to be because they have so much to give to this world. Um, I agree. Like it. I feel like growth mindset set should come with like a little sticker label on it saying don't open this until you read the book. You know what I mean? Like go read some of Carol Dweck's actual work rather than what the hype is that you've heard around it in the staff room or whatever, because done wrong.

[00:23:39] It is just toxic positivity. Right. It's the class. It's the it's the lunchroom interpretation of it. It's the when they don't actually read the book themselves or listen to the book or whatever. They're kind of missing it. It's just kind of, oh, you you learned this in a staff meeting. So I'm just going to take what's on this pamphlet and it can be misinterpreted. You're absolutely correct. Yeah.

[00:24:00] Um, I would like to know after you, so after you got through high school and you got into all of your college experiences, what did you feel was your biggest tool that you used to get through? Did you feel the same experience of kind of, I'll use my own terminology, no matter how hard I try, it's just like, I'm going to come up short. Or did you feel like college was different?

[00:24:29] At the time I was at university, they were giving away computers for dyslexic kids at university. So everybody who got a new computer was dyslexic. So it was like three quarters of the class got a new computer because everybody on our course was dyslexic. It was kind of where we all ended up. But you know what? It was a great degree. It taught project management skills. It taught how to stand up and present an idea and sell it.

[00:24:57] Like you did a project for six weeks and then you had to, what they called a crit, a critique. You had to put all your work up on the wall and then stand up in front of your lecturers and present your project. And they would ask you questions and you'd have to defend them. Like honestly, that prepares you for real life better than an exam does any day. We had to learn a lot of different computer skills. Honestly, I think it was a degree that really set me up for adult life.

[00:25:27] We had to be in school from nine to five every day. Like what better life skills are than that? You're getting a little bit of just the reality of the work world. Yeah. And then also the way it was presented. I agree with you in terms of defending your work and your answer. And it just goes to show you have to know it from every single angle. So that is great preparation. Okay. So let's talk about what happened next for you.

[00:25:56] So how did you end up? Did you had kids? What was the next kind of phase? I mean, you know, you have a journey. I worked as a, I didn't know what I wanted to do when I graduated, but I actually kind of was, I wanted to get out of design because it was really kind of full of a lot of egos. And I was kind of like, I'm kind of over this. So I thought I would give teaching a try and I moved to Japan and taught English there and fell in love with it and decided that this is what I wanted to do.

[00:26:25] And then my parents had moved to Canada. So I moved over here to Vancouver to be closer to them and just kind of worked in schools and in the fields and in different ways for a number of years. And then I started, I discovered Orton Gillingham and I trained as an Orton Gillingham practitioner. And I had my son kind of all around the same time. I had like, well, I had a business. I was developing.

[00:26:53] So I guess I'd combined the product design with the teaching and I developed play-based literacy programs. And I was selling that for like families to teach kids to read just by having fun together. So I guess that's what I'd been doing. And then I took the OG training about the time that my kiddo was in kindergarten. And that's, yeah, it was, so I had all this knowledge. Like I have all this family experience of dyslexia. I've been prepping him since he was three. Like I'd say to him, talk about like self-talk.

[00:27:22] I used to say to him constantly, you don't have to be the smartest kid in the class. You just have to be the guy that figures it out. Because the kid that figures it out always wins in the end, like always gets where they need to go. And my husband was like, why would you say that to him? Like, why can't he be the smartest kid in the class? And I'm like, I know. It's not that I don't think he is. It's just that I want him to know that it's not what you're born with. It's how much you stick with it. Like it's how you just keep going after stuff. That's what I want him to understand.

[00:27:51] That's what I believe too. I don't believe that I'm the smartest gal in the room, but I'm a hard worker. And if you keep at it, I think that the majority of the people out there, that is what they're equipped with, dyslexia or not. But when you just keep consistently showing up, that to me is a huge life lesson. So I don't disagree with you. Yeah. Yeah. It was really important for me, for him to go into school and be like,

[00:28:20] I can do this on my own terms. However, his learning turned out to be. And of course, the signs started showing up in kindergarten. The teachers are like, he doesn't really like writing. He was in Montessori back then. And they were like, well, we just let them do it when they're ready to. And he doesn't seem ready yet. And by the end of kindergarten, I was like, and at what point, you know, do we think we're going to like have him do some more writing? And it was such a difficult time because even though I knew what I knew,

[00:28:50] it was still the first time being doing it as a mom. And I felt gaslit, honestly, by the teachers. Like, you know, I'd be like, he's not writing. Like he can't spell. He's not writing. He's not writing. Oh, no, he's fine. Everything's fine. So I put him in Canada. They can do French immersion. And he was failing to read. I'd already taught him to read in English using structured literacy, science of reading.

[00:29:18] And I kept saying, well, that doesn't make any sense. How could he be reading in English and not in French? And I'm like, that's because how are you doing it? They wouldn't believe me. And then they brought us in for this big meeting to basically tell us that they were throwing us out of French immersion because we were not performing.

[00:29:38] And they they done this French language testing on him that is normed on French speakers, not on kids who have been in French immersion for a year and a half. But you bring up something, Nicola, about feeling gaslit by the teachers. And let's throw out the whole French immersion experience. But you going to them saying he you know, he's not writing. He's not you know, those kind of pieces.

[00:30:05] I think that probably I don't know, 90 percent of the parents who are listening to this can probably all identify with that, because how many parents do I talk to who say they went with concerns to the teacher, to the school and they were told, no, they're totally fine. Their grades are fine, et cetera, et cetera. Right. And in Montessori, I will say my same thing. My kid was in Montessori. Same thing.

[00:30:32] It took him two years to spell his name. That's three letters. OK, and it's not even spelling. It's writing his name. He hated writing. And every time he would do an O, he would start in God knows where a different place. He didn't have the motor planning, all of that. And they would say it's Maria Montessori, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:30:55] They would go off on their reasoning of why it's so great that he's at a Montessori school because he can go at his level. And then I remember one time I was like trying to get to the director of the school and have her listen. She was like bringing up videos of Maria Montessori and the handwriting. And I'm like, you're missing the entire point here. What I'm telling you is that I know my child's dyslexic and I know these things are going to be hard.

[00:31:24] And I want to make sure that we are not letting him just not do it because we have to start building this skill early. So for him to just do math or sewing, he loved to sew for whatever reason. He would make like hundreds of pillows. But I didn't want him to not be practicing. But, you know, because they're kind of like they get to pick. And, you know, that was an issue that I had. That's why we pulled.

[00:31:53] And yeah, yeah, we went we went as far as kindergarten and the school finished. And I was like, it's time for him to get into the regular school system because, yeah, I think it's lovely. They get to pick and everything. But actually, he kind of needs to learn to do some of these things. And unless he's like told it's now math time you're doing right. He will not pick math. Right. Right. And that whole gaslighting piece went on for too long. Like it's ridiculous how many years that that went on.

[00:32:23] So I guess I was going to the school from like grade one saying like, like, can we teach him some phonics? No, you cannot teach your child phonics. That will confuse him. That will mess him up. I feel like he's struggling here. No, no. Everything's fine. Everything's fine. The reports all came back fine. And then finally, like I said, in grade three, we got called in for this big meeting. Oh, your child's failing. And we're like, wait a second. It's like the fourth week of September. He had a report in June saying he was fine.

[00:32:51] Like, how can he go from fine to failing in like two months? This doesn't make sense. And so I would say we got thrown out of French version, but we didn't because I pulled him because the teacher said to me, well, we're going to watch him fail for the rest of the year. And I went, I'm not having my kid in a class that you have just told me you're going to sit there and watch him fail. Like there was like, there's nothing we can do. He will fail. And I was like, no, there is one thing we can do. I'm pulling him.

[00:33:19] So we pulled him two weeks before Christmas and put him in the English stream. So then we went back into the English stream and went and it continued this. Oh, no, he's fine. I'm going to, we're going to, like, I was just reading his grade three report. And it was like his, you know, they write nice things like, oh, he has great ideas and we will be structuring his writing more next term. Like, okay, great. Well, then I find out at the end of the term, he hasn't written anything whole term.

[00:33:48] He's somehow managed to avoid it. And yet the teachers continue to pass and say, no, no, he's fine. He's, he's learning at his pace. It's all good. And this kid is like off the bottom of the scale in terms of writing and spelling. It took years. And looking back now, I just go like, God, like it was so obvious. Why couldn't I have pushed harder or seen it more?

[00:34:15] It's so difficult because you're trying to maintain a relationship with the teacher at the same time. And at the end of the day, you know, you are pushing and advocating for your child because that is more important than the relationship with that teacher. But when you're in it, it sits differently. You can tell someone that all day long and they can believe it.

[00:34:36] But it feels so incredibly awkward because at the same time, oftentimes, you know that that person who in effect is gaslighting you also cares about your child. They're just saying that out of ignorance. And you there's no good way to be able to communicate that, too. So and to be fair to teachers, they're not gaslighting because they're not doing it intentionally. Because they're not doing it intentionally. Exactly. Exactly. So what about today?

[00:35:03] I know that you you did ultimately become an interventionist. How old is your son now? Tell us, kind of fill us in into like fast forwarding to now. So I spent 20 years outside of education and then I decided to go back into a master's degree a couple of years ago. And I was quite nervous going back into school, especially in Canada, because I'd never gone to school here. And it's a little different. I'm kind of a blast.

[00:35:28] I was like, oh, my gosh, why did I ever feel like school wasn't available for me? You know, when you're working in your area of interest and passion, that dyslexia roadblock just isn't so much there. It's really more when you push things that you have to do. You're just like, oh, my God. But when you're working, it's like it just everything came together. I had a blast. So I'm I kind of made peace with education finally after all those years. So that was really big for me.

[00:35:58] My son is 15. And so what eventually happened was we actually homeschooled. I don't want any parent listening to this being like, oh, my God, don't make me do that. Because like you don't nobody has to homeschool their kid. But that's what we ended up doing was we homeschooled him for grade seven because he just wasn't getting the support that he needed in school. So and it's it's this funny like flip flop between I need him to get some support.

[00:36:27] But I also need you and I need you to give him accommodations. But I also need you to push him sometimes. Right. Like I need you to tell him he needs to sit down and do this and not be like, oh, you're dyslexic. You don't have to because that's actually not helpful either. So over the course of that year, we just saw him blossom. And then you go to high school in grade eight here. So he went to high school in the fall and he has just kind of been on this trajectory. Obviously, his journey is not finished and school is not easy.

[00:36:56] He's a kid who works hard for his grades, but he's motivated and interested and hoping to finish a language arts at the first available opportunity. I'd say that's awesome. A lot of parents do what you've chosen to do, but I agree with you in the sense of, you know, in when you're referring to him being in grade seven and then just really so much.

[00:37:22] He got away academically with a lot of things and finding that balance of I need you to accommodate him and support him, but also not lower the bar. They're faced with very large class sizes, et cetera, et cetera. And so I also, again, understand where they're coming from. But when you remove them from that setting, it can be so beneficial. And of course, that's not in everyone's world. That's not an option for so, so many parents.

[00:37:50] But I'm so happy to hear that he's really blossoming. Yeah. He's very lucky to have you. Very lucky. And I'm sure people say that all the time. He's 15 and he doesn't think so. Yeah. Well, you'll he'll I mean, my son's only seven. So I'm still in the honeymoon phases with him of like us snuggling and he'll be like, are we just like cool because we're dyslexic? I'm like, OK, sure. Yeah. Uh huh. Uh huh.

[00:38:17] But I want to hear some as we wrap up, I want to hear some advice that you would give to another parent who isn't dyslexic and is just at the beginning, just at the very beginning of thinking something's off, something's wrong. I feel like just go with your gut. I mean, like, I'm sure you've heard that before, but, you know, no, we have harder. It's so much harder than you think. Right.

[00:38:47] Like we talked about, you know, the teachers are like on one hand, they'll be everything's fine. On the next hand, you say, no, this kid has dyslexia. And they're like, OK, now they don't have to do anything. And it's like, no, I need this. Like I and maybe maybe that's advice is to like sit down and like get clear on what it is your kid needs, whether you do that with your ed psych, your psychologist who writes the report.

[00:39:12] So that you can very clearly say to teachers like, yeah, my kid struggles with writing. He's going to use assistive technology to write. But that doesn't mean, you know, that he doesn't write in full sentences. Really like knowing your kid and knowing what they need so that when you do get something like that thrown at you in a nine minute, like on the spot thing, you can like immediately be like, yeah, no, that's not going to work here.

[00:39:38] Like, let's talk about how we can modify that so that my kid can be successful in this environment. I think you're kind of alluding to, you know, when you listen to your gut and you know, some things like, you know, some things off. And I don't want anyone to hear me say this and think I'm selling a service, selling myself or selling Megan.

[00:39:59] But you really parents really need to talk to somebody that is an expert in dyslexia and even better, someone with dyslexia that is an expert in the sense that we know how to support these kids. It's not a mystery. And there is a there is kind of like there's an equation. There's not some madness to where we're witches coming up with a different concoction for this kid and that kid. Right. It's not like that.

[00:40:28] And that's a lot of what we hear when we talk and parents are getting gaslit by by people. They're not experts in the field. So they're just saying something that they got taught from somebody else or whatever.

[00:40:41] So I want to encourage parents to talk to somebody who knows the solutions and can rattle them off quite simply because it's not complicated to say you need to to start science of reading based intervention. It needs to be frequent.

[00:41:01] And if, you know, they won't talk to you about their mental health, find a mentor, a best friend, a therapist, whatever, that pretty much sums up some stepping stones. This is not a complicated solution. It's so frustrating because and a lot of times when they're the person of authority, you don't want to just say to them, you're wrong. But it's so hard when you know they're wrong.

[00:41:28] And so, you know, I think that if getting an advocate is not something that that you can afford, call up your best friend and give them the script and have them come to your IEP meeting and have them say it for you. Because nowhere does it say that you can't have your best friend come to your meeting. And that is direct access to saying to the team, listen, I'm the mom. I'm emotional.

[00:41:54] I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but I have some facts that I need to get out there. But we can't be afraid to call out the myths that continue to just be circling in these meetings. We got to put a stop to it. So it's not just about having the funds to do that. It's about finding somebody that can support you. And if any listeners don't have a best friend, like call us. You guys, we're here. That's why we have a website.

[00:42:23] Email us. Tell us. We can't do it ourselves. We need help. And I want to backtrack also, Nicoletta, what you said just in general, knowing your child and knowing what they need. And even if that is, you know, sitting down with your with the neuropsychologist and looking at the profile or just having a dyslexia professional, an expert level dyslexia professional be able to explain that.

[00:42:50] I think that it is so important because something that's important to stress is that dyslexia is not a rubber stamp. It does. It's not you know, there isn't a one, two, three, four or five exact equation for every child. So understanding the profile of your child and how not only how your child processes language, but how they process everything that's provided to them. We haven't had someone yet say, follow your gut. I'm huge on mama and daddy gut.

[00:43:19] If you if you think there's a problem there, it's there. And so don't rely on the school to direct you. Now, some schools are great at it and they are doing the work and they are bringing it forward to parents who don't realize. But more often than not, it's the opposite. And, you know, two years later, we're talking to them after they tried getting the school to do something before.

[00:43:44] And we just lost two years of that early intervention time that, you know, so circling all the way back to the beginning. So so I do have a question as we kind of, you know, wrap this up. But if you could craft your life again, Nicola, would you still choose for dyslexia to be part of your story? And it's OK for it not to be. Yes, we want your honest answer. I think I would have to say yes, because dyslexia isn't the problem.

[00:44:12] It's the way that society treats dyslexics. That's the issue, right? Like you think about the different models of disability and the social model, which is kind of what we're trying to move to, says, you know, the person in the wheelchair doesn't have a problem. It's the stairs that we put instead of ramps that are the problem. And I think the same is true with dyslexia. You know, dyslexic brains are brilliant. They do things differently and they make connections differently.

[00:44:39] And if honestly, I believe that if there was something wrong with the dyslexic brain, that the natural selection would have selected it out a long time ago. And it hasn't. And we still have it. And that's because dyslexic people have a gift to give to the world. And it's just that as, you know, coming back to the land acknowledgement that I gave at the beginning of this, you know, we have to think about that colonializing the country that we live in.

[00:45:06] And we also need to think about that from the terms of the systemic barriers that we have in place that are ableist, that are stopping people who are neurodiverse to be able to achieve what they need to achieve. So, yes, I would absolutely be dyslexic if I could do it over again. So that is just such a beautiful way, I think, to conclude this. I don't think we should add any more to it. I love how we started with that and we ended with it. And your message is so, so, so, so true.

[00:45:36] And it's not just of dyslexia. It's of all neurodivergence and differences. So thank you so much for explaining today your experience that started with your mother all the way through your child and how that ended up parlaying into a profession that you love. I think that you've added so much sage wisdom and words of advice and just relatable content to so many people here. So thank you so much. Oh, thank you.

[00:46:05] It's been a real pleasure. It's been a pleasure meeting you. I know our paths are going to cross again. And I just, I can't wait to hear more about your son in the future. And just thank you for sharing your story. No, thanks. It's been lovely. Thank you for tuning in to Don't Call On Me. If you enjoyed today's episode, please follow us on social media channels and YouTube to stay connected.

[00:46:32] And help us spread awareness by sharing your own stories at don'tcallonme.com. Your voice can make a difference. Join us in building a supportive community one story at a time. See you next episode.